Art of Persistence

"The art of love ... is largely the art of persistence." -Albert Ellis

Wednesday, April 25, 2007

Response to a Friend (2)

“[M]ankind has been working on and refining his religious practices since the first people sat by a fire and gazed up at the stars and shared stories about great hunters in the sky and forest spirits. The religious practices of today are an incredibly well-tuned and marvelous achievement in man’s quest to bring some grand overarching meaning to his existence and to enforce a code of behavior on his society.”

I think you’ve almost got it with this first sentence, but then you walk away and give us the old Marxist line. It’s hard for me to imagine “primitive man” struggling to give meaning to his existence when his existence was pretty heavily occupied with trying to merely sustain his existence. And it’s equally hard for me to imagine fur-clad cavemen who lived in small bands going to the trouble of inventing a religion to “enforce a code of behavior on his society” as if he were some cynical, modern politico. Of course, it’s a bit much for either of us to speak definitively about the motivations of anybody, and slightly impossible to be very precise about the motivations of those that lived eons ago and first gave voice to their spiritual musings. But staring up at the stars has always produced in me a sense of awe, even in our modern light-polluted sky. This sense of awe seems to me to be a more credible explanation for the rise of stories about “great hunters in the sky and forest spirits”. I mean, why invent a religion to keep somebody in line when a sharp rock would have done a much more reliable job?

“When you look at religions today in a purely analytical light, their architecture is almost like that of a biological organism. They have complex facilities for the recruitment and retention of followers which include well-formulated answers to many of the recurring questions of human existence.”

And like a biological organism, they would have all faded away without the ability to reproduce and sustain life (though they may have left behind some nice Shaker furniture). So where does this line of reasoning get us?

I find it interesting that you liken religion to a biological organism. But while you obviously reject Intelligent Design of biological organisms, you embrace Intelligent Design of religion. Furthermore, you ascribe motives to these Designers which are dubious at best.

“Lastly, they each contain a code of conduct intended to not only protect the people involved but also protect the interest and livelihood of the church itself.”

So you’ve mentioned “the church” again in an essay that’s supposed to be about generic religion. Are you being sloppy, or are you really just aiming at Christianity?

”The primary means of recruiting new inductees for a religion is simply by having your existing members give birth. Religious parents live in dire fear that their offspring will leave the fold and be subjected to the punishments promised to the unfaithful."

First of all, it seems a little silly that you are trying to make it sound sinister that parents raise their children as if they really believed their religions. Secondly, not all religions have the whole “punishments promised to the unfaithful” bit. While Western Christianity does, not all Protestants and Catholics make much of a point of this. My Dad, as I pointed out in A Good Word , didn’t raise me to do the right thing for fear of being sent to Hell.

"Sometimes ritual mutilation is used to permanently mark children as initiates of a religion but generally the rites of induction are primarily ceremonial and educational for the child born into a religious home.”

Yes, I remember the haircuts with great fear and trembling.

Your next paragraph, on proselytizing, would carry more weight if you used some concrete examples. As it stands, it seems that you are simply generalizing from some bad experiences with some particularly sadistic brand of Protestant Fundamentalism.

“Once the initiate accepts the religion, retention is typically a much simpler matter. The threats ...are supplemented by a much more powerful positive force, a strong sense of community and fellowship. Humans require friendly contact with other humans so religions supply this fellowship...."

...the bastards!


You can find his entire original post here

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3 Comments:

  • At 11:51 PM, Blogger Unknown said…

    gqWell, let's see...i'll try this again. I've tried to comment a couple of different times but always run into problems with my google account. You know what they say though (at least in "The Hobbit"), third time's a charm. Let's see if that sentiment plays out.
    I don't know who your friend is but he seems to have fallen into the same conceptual trap that many others have fallen into over the ages. Namely that "religion" has been established to enforce a code of behavior on those on the lower rungs of society. I say the "lower rungs" because it seems to me that those on the higher rungs have a different set of rules by which to govern their behavior, but this is a "rabbit trail" that leads to a whole different exchange of ideas.
    The fact that there have been and still today are those who would use religion as a means of controlling others is a given but this should not be confused with the intent of religion (especially the true faith of Orthodox Christianity). History is pregnant with people who twist what is good into something more dark and malicious, but this concept is self-explanitory and does not in any fashion expose what God wants to reveal to us through a community of believers. That, if you will, is the crux of the issue as you see it-or so i understand from the quotes presented.
    Unfortunatly, "Friend", you have become a victim of the same trap that you accuse religion to persue, namely you've been pigeonholed into a code of rationality that for better or worse strikes at removing God from the human consciousness. I wonder, have you ever considered that God may actually exist? And if you haven't maybe you should look into the possibility. I suspect that you are science minded and would welcome a "unified theory" on the nature of the universe, but on the same hand you admonish those that have actually come up with one!
    Another thing i find interesting is the fact that in your diatribes against "religion" you've neglected to study about the thing you speak against. If you read scripture it is replete with prophets and Christ Himself speaking out against the code of social conduct of the day. How many times did Christ call the Pharisees hypocrites and told them very plainly that their actions bespeak of their controling and manipulative behavior. In the Old Testement the Prophets time and again stood before the ruling classes and admonished them for their Godless, manipulating behavior and more times than not were killed for their admonitions. If anything I would say that Scripture tells us to be wary of those in positions over our lives. We obey the established laws, to be sure, but it is not to be a blind obedience, if it were you wouldn't have 300 years of martyrdom after the ascention of Christ.
    The question of whether there is a God or not is the most important one for a person to make in his or her lifetime. I would ask that you study the problem before reciting those same old "humanist" lines.

     
  • At 3:43 AM, Blogger Rich said…

    Commander, my trusty co-worker in the vineyards of the Lord,

    Speaking for my Friend (you can read his blog for yourself), he has considered whether God exists, and has come with no knowledge one way or the other - he is an agnostic. I can respect that. (It's the Atheists and their claim to have proven a negative that I have trouble with, along with the usual acerbic, ad hominem attacks.)

    Also, he hasn't neglected to study religion - he's got a series of posts on his attempts to make sense out of the Bible. Unfortunately, his experiments have only gotten so far as to disprove Aquinas's supremacy of logic, as well as the Protestant idea of the perspicacity of scripture.

    I would admonish you, Commander, to watch your tone on this blog. If I respect my friend enough to comment in (what I hope is) a gracious way, I would I expect comments to be posted with the same graciousness.
    You've come close to being disrespectful.

     
  • At 9:06 AM, Blogger Rich said…

    Furthermore, I think it behooves us believers to remember that a major reason that people don't believe is that our lives gives them no convincing reason.

     

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